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Writer's pictureRahim Ali

The JD-MA Experience: Merging Law and Public Policy

Hi! Please introduce yourself.

Hi, my name is Rahim, and I graduated in 2023 from the JD-MA program between the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law and the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs (NPSIA) at Carleton University. I’m interested in administrative law, constitutional law, human rights law, international law, and immigration & refugee law.


I come from a science background. I completed my undergraduate degree in the Life Sciences program at McMaster University. During that time, I developed an interest in public health, so after graduating, I worked as a research assistant for an epidemiologist. After working with him for two years, I came to realize that law is an important tool in the application of public health—something quite evident in light of the pandemic. And I also realized I had a strong interest in advocacy, especially when it comes to the welfare of marginalized groups. So, during that time, I also sat on my MP’s Youth Council. These realizations led me to law school. In the future, I aspire to be an effective advocate.


Outside of school, I enjoy spending time in nature, particularly doing water activities—I am an avid standup paddleboarder. There’s a good chance you’ll find me navigating the waters of southern Ontario on my paddleboard. I also enjoy traveling, learning new languages, experiencing new cultures, and meeting new people.


What motivated you to pursue a career in law?

I began my undergraduate studies in the political science program at McMaster University because I had an interest in government and international affairs. But after my first year, I wasn’t sure what I would do with a political science degree. Law school was not on my radar. In fact, becoming a lawyer was the one profession I felt I definitely did not want to pursue because I very much had images of what we see in TV legal dramas in mind—and that did not appeal to me. My older brother went into medicine, so I thought, “Why not? Let me pursue it too.” So, I switched into the Life Sciences program. But my heart was never in medicine.

After graduating from the Life Sciences program, I worked as a research assistant for an epidemiologist (and my former professor) at McMaster University. At that point, I still didn’t know what I wanted to do. I had some interest in public health, so I thought about doing a masters in that or an MBA in health services management. But then I found out that a friend had applied and was admitted to law school at uOttawa. And the thought just came suddenly and unexpectedly: “Why not give it a try?” This was in July. I immediately began studying for the LSAT full-time and wrote the exam in the fall. I was accepted into uOttawa 2-3 months later.

I applied to uOttawa, U of T, Western, Queen’s, and Osgoode. I accepted uOttawa because it was my second choice and I didn’t get my first choice. What appealed to me about uOttawa was the option to do a combined JD and MA in international affairs (the latter at Carleton University).

One thing that I would advise prospective students is to understand that what you see in legal TV shows and movies are not representative of the reality of practicing law (having sat in court proceedings many times, I can assure you it isn’t quite like what you see on TV). You could be a lawyer without ever stepping into a courtroom. Lawyers do different kinds of work and in vastly different practice areas. So, if you’re interested in law but don’t necessarily want to be in the courtroom, that’s okay.


What was your experience like in law school?

I completed the joint JD-MA program between the University of Ottawa Faculty of Law and the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs (NPSIA) at Carleton University. It was a small program—we had around 17 students (I’ve heard previous cohorts had as little as 4-5 students). The way that the program works is:

Year 1: Law

Year 2: Masters

Year 3: Law + 1 Masters’ course

Year 4: Law + 1 Masters’ course

While this was a combined program, there wasn’t really any interaction or mixing of the two sides: in effect, I was a student in two separate programs: the JD at uOttawa and the MA at NPSIA. The benefit of doing the combined program rather than doing the degrees separately is that you save one year of study: the combined program is four years, whereas doing the programs separately would take five years.

My NPSIA year was my most difficult year. This is partly because of COVID-19: my NPSIA year and the MA classes I took in years 3 and 4 were online—I never had an in-person class. This meant I had an experience very different from the one that students previously had, and students that follow me are likely to have. Most classes were 3-hour student-led seminars on Zoom. Furthermore, because of the way that the program is structured, when JD-MA students are at NPSIA in year 2, they take 4 courses per term, whereas the other MA students take 3 courses per term (so technically, JD-MA students have >100% course load). While this is doable, it can be overwhelming at times. It’s important to always seek help and to seek it early. (There is the option to reduce the course load during the school year, but that just means having to take courses over the summer).

But the JD-MA program was the right fit for me. While the JD is a law degree, the MA at NPSIA is focused on policy. Given my interest in government, I felt that having training in both law and policy makes me a well-rounded candidate for a career in public service since law and policy are closely intertwined and often inform each other. They work together to shape good governance. I would recommend the program to people with similar interests. And doing the MA also stood out for me when I applied for internships. NPSIA has a great reputation and is well-known, especially within the Public Service of Canada. In one place that I ended up interning, I was told that what stood out in my application was that I was in the MA program.

I would also note that you don’t need to decide on the joint program before starting your studies. I was admitted into the MA part of the program in the fall of my first year of the JD program. I know students who were in the joint program but decided to drop the MA portion and just complete the JD after they began law school.

If I were to go through the program again, one thing I would do differently is to get to know more people. I am usually a reserved person and find it difficult to just walk up to someone and start a conversation. But school is a great opportunity to build a network. It’s important to seize the opportunity, even if that means taking several steps outside of one’s comfort zone.


How did you find your first law-related job?

My first law-related experience was a volunteer position at Reach Canada (now a part of ABLE2) in the summer after 1L. Reach helped people with disabilities find legal professionals to assist them. My tasks varied from doing client intake, emailing/calling lawyers and paralegals, and outreach. Due to the pandemic, it was all done remotely.

For my 1L summer position, I interviewed at the Canadian Civil Liberties Association and the International Development Research Centre. I was unsuccessful at both. I had also applied to the Federal Student Work Experience Program and successfully landed a position at the Canada Border Service Agency. But when the COVID-19 pandemic began, the position was cancelled, so I never started. I quickly pivoted and searched for law-related volunteer positions on Google. I found Reach Canada and emailed the manager. Normally, law students can apply to volunteer at Reach through Pro Bono Students Canada. I bypassed PBSC completely and spoke to the manager. After a telephone interview, I got the position. One thing that I’ve learned is that it’s important to persist even if the odds are against you. There have been times when I have reached out even after deadlines have passed and still gotten positions. When all roads have closed to your destination, don’t be afraid to be bold and try carving out a new path.

My first law-related (paid) job is my current articling position at Tribunals Ontario, which is an umbrella organization for 13 adjudicative tribunals under the Ministry of the Attorney General. I got the position through the structured articling recruitment process. The process was intense. Interviews were over 3 days in August. I was already exhausted from the internships I was doing that summer. I initially scheduled 13 interviews over those 3 days but cancelled 4-5 of them due to my exhaustion. In some cases, I reached out and cancelled 10 minutes before the interview. While it was not ideal, I felt that it was better to cancel than to waste the interviewer’s time and humiliate myself. Fortunately, I found that the interviewers were very understanding of the situation.

Having gone through that recruitment process, I have some advice for prospective applicants/interviewees:

  • Be careful not to over-extend yourself. Looking back, I was crazy to schedule 13 interviews over the course of 3 days. In the moment, I was blinded by the desire to secure an articling position in Toronto, that I neglected what I could manage.

  • Communicate even if it might be uncomfortable. It was difficult to reach out to firms at Bay Street and government ministries to cancel interviews. I could have just missed the interview without saying anything. But I felt that would be unprofessional and tarnish my reputation—especially in a city that I wanted to stay in. So, as uncomfortable as it was, I reached out. And not only did everyone appreciate it, but they were all very understanding.

  • Apply for positions you are genuinely interested in. My experience from doing interviews for clerkships (at the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, Federal Court, and Federal Court of Appeal), private firms, and government is that recruiters have a way of seeing through people. I have never gotten a position that I was not genuinely interested in, and I usually did get those positions that I was interested in. In fact, for my articling position at Tribunals Ontario, the only prep I did was 30 minutes before the interview (we were provided the interview questions 30 minutes before our scheduled interview time). But because administrative law (the area of law most relevant to Tribunals Ontario) was my favourite subject in law school, my enthusiasm and knowledge flowed naturally during the interview.

Presenting my paper at the Emilio Binavince Student Research Colloquium


You’ve done some very interesting internships during law school. Can you talk about your experience there?

In the summer after 2L, I completed internships at the Ontario Court of Justice, the Senate of Canada, and the Just Governance Group. All three internships were by application and provided through the Career and Professional Development Centre at the law school. I applied for all three in the winter term of 2L. (I should note that normally students cannot complete more than two internships in one term, but due to special circumstances, I was granted a rare exception).

The opportunity to participate in the internship at the Senate was appealing to me, given the institution’s role in our Parliamentary system. I have always had an interest in the Constitution and public law in general. This translated to a desire to understand the role of Parliament and seek opportunities to work there. So, I was keen to work with either a Member of Parliament or a Senator to expand my knowledge and gain experience.

I had a variety of tasks during my Senate internship. A lot of it focused on doing legal and parliamentary research on bills in the Parliament. This required looking at case law and legislation not only in Canada, but the US and the UK, too. I researched House of Common and Senate Hansards for discussions on bills and wrote memos for the Senator that laid out the parties’ positions and the key aims of bills. I also attended the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly meeting entitled “The role of the OSCE in addressing the war in Ukraine and its consequences.” But the coolest thing that I was able to do was attend Senate committees on legal and constitutional affairs, national security, and regulations. Being in the room and observing these meetings was the highlight of my time at the Senate.

At the Ontario Court of Justice, I worked with different judges and undertook the duties of a judicial law clerk. Most of my time was spent conducting legal research and writing memos for judges. But I also attended hearings and discussed observations with the presiding judge.

As noted, I was granted special permission to complete 3 internships over the summer. Having done it, I understand why the school caps the limit at 2. It was no easy feat. As I mentioned, I was exhausted come August when I had to interview for articling. I did 3 internships because I thought that if I could manage 5 academic courses in a term, 3 internships should be manageable. The error in my thinking was that, unlike a course where you are given a syllabus and deadlines from the beginning, with assignments/readings more or less spaced out, the world of work is different. There are moments when the workload might be quite high and other moments less so. Across 3 internships, there were periods when all 3 required a lot of work at once (in one particular week, I had to submit 4-5 legal memos).

Ultimately, the following got me through:

  • Calendar/Agenda – I diarized all my tasks and deadlines. This helped tremendously in keeping organized and staying on track.

  • Communication – I was open and honest with my supervisors. All of them knew about my other responsibilities. If I needed more time with an assignment, I asked. If I needed help with something, I asked (this saved me a lot of time).

  • Teamwork – In two of my internships, there was another intern. In both cases, we helped each other where we could.


If you could give one piece of advice to prospective or current law students to help them succeed, what would it be?

Heed the philosopher Seneca’s words: “He who is everywhere is nowhere.”

I heard and reflected on these words sometime mid-way through my program while watching one of Ryan Holiday’s videos on YouTube.

I think there are some people who have the incredible ability to successfully do so many things so well, but I think those people are the exception rather than the norm. Generally, when I look at people who have excelled in their fields, it’s because they are focused—they aren’t in too many places at once.

I do think people should explore and try different things while in law school, but be careful about trying too many things at once because it will compromise the quality of the work you do. This is something I realized while doing 3 internships at once. It’s better to do a few things well than to do a lot of things mediocrely.


In addition to being focused, I think consistency (and relatedly, discipline) is key. In my first year of undergrad, I saw a quote in the email signature of a university employee that stuck with me: “Success is the sum of small efforts, repeated day in and day out.” Consistency not only increases your chances of reaching your desired outcomes, but it also allows you to refine and improve your work over time. It’s through consistent effort and discipline that you can achieve a high level of quality and mastery in your chosen field.


What are your future career plans going forward, and how can our readers connect with you in the future?

After my graduation, I took a month to travel. That was a great way for me to reset before articling. I just started articling at the Ministry of the Attorney General (Tribunals Ontario Legal Services Unit). I’m not sure where I’ll go after I complete articling—I’m open to whatever life has in store for me.

Don’t hesitate to reach out to me on LinkedIn or via email at rahim93ali@gmail.com.

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